Room Full of Traders
If you ask a room full of commodity traders which skill is the most important in becoming a successful trader I wonder if anyone would respond the ability to take a loss? I doubt it, because taking a loss is considered a negative. Who wants to talk about the right way to lose money? I think every trader should!
I believe that possessing the mental toughness to accept a loss, and the ability to know when a loss should be taken, are traits I believe to be at the foundation of being a profitable commodity trader. Let us understand each other right now. If you trade commodities some of your trades, if not a majority, will be losers. If you are to be a profitable trader, I believe you must recognize this basic fact and have a bad trade exit strategy determined even before you put on any trade.
Stop-Loss Order
PAY ATTENTION! In my view this order should be used when a trade is entered into and the trader has determined a specific level of risk or loss they are willing to accept.
How Do Stops Work
An aspect of stop and stop-loss orders that often confuses some traders is the level at which they get filled once their stop/stop-loss price is hit. You see, when using stop/stop-loss orders, the order cannot - by regulation - be executed until the stop price is traded. At that point, it becomes a market order -- not a limit order set at the stop value. Let us use the example shown in the definition of Money Stop-Loss where the stop-loss price was $6.90. If the market traded as follows:
$7.00
6.99
6.98
6.97
6.96
6.95
6.94
6.93
6.92
6.91 1/2
6.91
6.90
6.88
6.87
6.86
6.89
6.90
What is the best price you could expect to get filled at? If you said 6.88, you are right. If the market was a fast market, or if the order flow was thin, you might not get a fill until 6.86. Remember, a stop/stop-loss order becomes a market order only AFTER the stop-loss price is traded.
Taking a Loss
If you are going to be a trader of commodity futures, you are going to have trades that lose money ... pure and simple. In my first booklet, “Lessons Learned”, I recounted a true story of one of my clients from years ago. He bought a contract of corn just prior to the release of a government report. The report was a bearish report, but for some reason the market did not react immediately to the government numbers. He had an opportunity to get out of the trade with only a quarter cent loss ($12.50), but he refused.
In the end, he liquated the trade and lost over two thousand dollars -- all in an effort to keep twelve dollars and fifty cents. Ladies and gentlemen, if you are going to have a chance I contend you must know how to TAKE A LOSS ... and understanding how to effectively use stop-loss orders can be a great help. Like my old account, you can pay twelve dollars and fifty cents now, or two thousand later.
Money Management
What is money management? There are a number of old sayings that I believe give a hint to the true nature of money management. One is simply, “If you are wrong, make sure to live to play another day”. One of the first old wags I learned as a rookie in the commodity business was, “The best loss to take is the first loss”, and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange came out with a popular poster that said “Risk Not Thy Whole Wad”. My personal definition of successful money management is to limit losses to acceptable levels (not risking thy whole wad) while providing the trader with an adequate opportunity to realize a profit from the trade.
What is an Acceptable Level of Risk
What is an acceptable level of risk? For me, it can be answered in two different ways. First, what is the risk-reward ratio? Secondly, how deep are the pockets of the trader? The answers to each of those questions are highly individualized, but at least one of those questions - if not both - should be answered BEFORE entering into a trade. I am not a big believer on determining stop-loss levels based upon what you can afford to lose. Why? Because what you can afford to lose has not a darn thing to do with the market or how it functions. That is why I absolutely find the money stop to limit losses to be without merit. If I feel that way, what do “deep pockets” have to do with anything? It has been my experience that the markets will give a trader several different stop/stop-loss levels of support or resistance to choose from. The depth of pockets will help determine how aggressive or conservative the trader can be in selecting the stop/stop-loss levels.
The Dreaded Mental Stop
What is a mental stop? The dreaded mental stop is usually preceded by having been stopped out of the market only to have the market reverse and go the other way, causing the trader to miss a possible profitable opportunity. That is how one comes to use a mental stop. So now let us address the question of “what is a mental stop”. A mental stop is a price determined by Trader Jack where he should accept the loss … but with no real intention of doing so. Do not waste your time fooling yourself. A mental stop is just a way to fool one’s self into believing they are practicing effective and responsible money management.
Last Piece of Advice
In my view a common mistake that is made by those attempting to use stops is placing the initial stop too close to the entry point of the trade. The initial stop in my view should be at the widest point giving the trade a chance to work and then over time progressively getting closer to the entry level.
By Lee Gaus
About the Author
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Lee Gaus is a 54 year old industry veteran of twenty-six years. Lee began his career in the livestock feed business before becoming a grain merchandising/commodity trader with a leading international company.
In 1992, Lee established EFG Group along with his two partners who are long-time friends. Since then, Lee has traveled the U.S. conducting seminars and trading meetings for retail traders and commodity offices.
http://leegaus.com/
Hi, I am new to Market Club. I have a question about stops. I use stops in trading, and think of them as protection, however many times a stock can fall after hours and a stop will not protect the stock. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ariana
Ariana,
Adam has suggest using the previous 3 period high or low to set stops. Unfortunately holding positions over night is just the danger of the game. Below is an audio and PDF workbook from a seminar on Stops by Joe Ross.
You may find the information very helpful and give you a couple different strategies that can be applied to your stop placement methods.
Audio - http://broadcast.ino.com/workshops/INLV07RO/workshop.mp3
PDF - http://broadcast.ino.com/workshops/INLV07RO/workshop.pdf
Best,
Lindsay Thompson
Director of New Business Development
INO.com & MarketClub.com
Dear Market Club: I am considering subscribing to your service. I have a question for you: I have seen an automated trading strategy that has a "money stop" feature. But instead of stopping the trade, it stops it and then simultaneously re-enters it, and calls the first stop a "money stop" to protect the trader. Am I missing something or if you simultaneously re-enter the trade, aren't you just back at square one with a new cost-basis but the overall P&L and exposure is virtually the same? Thank you, Erick
Dear Erick,
Thanks for the question. I think that the "first stop - money stop" feature has its positives and negatives depending on your trading style and typical length of holds. I think you are correct that popping you right back into a trade immediately after you were stopped out doesn't do too much good. However if you are a longer term trader looking for the general trend this may provide as a way to get back in and continue a move (if the trend strength remains after a moment of short term weakness). The thing I like about MarketClub is the ability to anticipate the triangles and use that anticipated price point as a stop placement. If you do get stopped out and the trend remains in the same direction, you may consider using the next three period high as another entry.
Lindsay
Hi, I do enjoy everything that ino.com offers and I have really enjoyed useing market club. On the stop order, if
you newcomers into the market are not aware of the CBOT 10 cent move that can cancel your stop you need to
discuss it with your broker, I and many others were burned pretty bad last year in the silver market. Thanks
for the space.
CAB
Hi love your site,i am a new trader and not sure of the mechanics of stop losses,believe one would place the buy or sell order,then go in with another seperate order for the stop loss is that correct hope you can help thankyou Frank
Frank,
You would start with a buy order. There would be a separate order for your set a sell point (stop point). A good way to get a feel for putting in broker orders is sighing up for a paper trading account. Although we can not suggest specific brokers... we can point you to a broker list on INO.com's Home Page. Those brokers may have a platform in which you could paper trade and learn how to place orders. Thanks for your great comments. We are glad to have you as a visitor on our blog. Best wishes.
Greetings: From the HOW DO STOPS WORK segment above, what is the meaning of the word "thin" in the phrase? "the order flow was thin," thank you in advance. larry w.
Hey Larry,
This article was authored by Lee Gaus. Visit his website at http://leegaus.com . I would love to try to explain what I think he means by this phrase, but it may be best to ask the author himself. Thanks!
~Lindsay